near kids. >> greg: but i could have been invited. i hate to end this show on an ugly note. buy, andy. bill, please come back, love having you here. greg gutfeld, bye bye. captioned by, closed captioning services, inc. >> announcer: ladies and gentlemen, governor mike huckabee. [ applause ] >> mike: thank you very much. thank you and welcome to this special edition of the "huckabee" from fox ds and york city. americans have a lot of questions about the health care reform package negotiated in washington. we will call me and curtly answer questions but having a lot of points of view and a very fair and balanced way. join our conversation tonight, california congresswoman greta sanchez, former health and human services secretary go with it.

president obama's personal physician for over 20 years, dr. david shiner will be with us, and pennsylvania's governor ed rendell, and world-renowned dr. david of ships. on our program tonight. we will cover every bit of information we can cover tonight. we hope you'll stay tuned for this important hour. [ applause ] >> mike: last week we asked you to send us your e-mails with healthcare -- healthcare concerns we will read them tonight and we want you to send us your questions drop the show tonight. send them to hotmail at foxnews.com. we will get to that later in the hour. i want to let you in on a little secret about why i am personally opposed to president obama's rush to get a government health care plan in place. let me say it is not personal opposition to president obama, and in fact it is not even political opposition because it's being pushed exclusively by deborah kratz.

it's because of what i know about how government works, and how even good ideas go bad when they are put through the legislative process. i want to let you know i'm not a shill for turns companies. the heavy-handed way they put profits ahead of patients is partly to blame for the clamor to fix things. in the case of obama care, the cure may be worse than the malady. when government does something that doesn't worry about how much it will cost. they can borrow the money, print more money or just charging more money in the form of higher taxes. with obama care it is going to require all three. it is going to cost more because of the nature of the legislative process. there will be 535 shots all seeking to seize and astute with their personal touch, or their personal political interests. did you know that there are 35,000 lobbyists in washington due to there being paid big bucks to get something out of time to their clients.

if you're not one of their clients, you might not get the big benefit area government doesn't have to compete. it doesn't have to be successful. it does not make a profit. doesn't have to be efficient, it doesn't have to work for you well. if it doesn't work in caucasus or the change were certainly go to business that you'll still be paying for it. congress just voted to buy a two goal stream jets with $500 million of your money so they can be squared around the world. they are spending 3 billion other money to subsidize car purchases and the grind of fuel cars. do you trust them to give you more and better health care for less money? the real issue is this: who do you trust? congress, the president, insurance companies, your doctor? tonight, tough questions and real answers to them. you can e-mail, text or to order your questions right now and we will answer some of them later in the show. i'm launching a petition drive to gather names of people who want to send a message to the president and congress, and i hope you'll join me in doing

just that. [ applause ] >> mike: if you want to sign a petition or get contact information so you can make personal contact with all of the members of congress or share a common, you can do that going to mike huckabee.com. >> let's get started with congress and member of the sanchez, a democrat from california. congresswoman sanchez two support a public option for healthcare. represent the sanchez, i think you know you're one of my favorites. i like you a lot but i want to start with the question that we've gotten more e-mails about than any other. so welcome to the show but let's jump into it. >> thank you, governor. >> mike: this comes from john in brewster, new york. if the government health care plan is so great, on a members of congress, the president included, leaves the government health care plan instead of their current congressional healthcare plan. my question to start with, we'll use that plan and will you vote to make sure that all numbers of

congress and administration also go into that plan? t-mac first of all, let me just tell you that that's probably the biggest question i got a health care forum that i did. would you use the same plan? or member that the plan against by, if you have something you like, then you get to keep that. so if i would like what i'm provided with right now, and i have to pay for that, by the way, then i would hold onto it. if i wouldn't, then i would go into the exchange and look and see what options are there for orange county where i carry my insurance. and then i would choose according to which plan made more sense for me. in the same way that i now choose between the group of plants that the federal government offers me. that's what happens to someone who is employed by a large

employer currently providing health insurance under the health insurance plan that we are moving in the congress. >> mike: that concern people have particularly those running business is that it would be cheaper for them to pay the fine or pay the tax and move their employees into the public option then it would be to continue paying in the private sector. the question is, will there be private sector plans to compete with the government-subsidized plant after a few years? smack the cbo, which was the group that analyzes what things cost, and was really the group that stopped this plan in its steps about two or three weeks ago, the one that says all my god, this costs a lot, etc. they took a look at that and they said actually if the plan works the way we envision it to, that more private companies would

actually be offering and pick up more business. >> mike: you're one of few people who believe that will happen that more private businesses will first under the plan. >> that's one of the reasons why you don't go straight into the exchange area that's one reason i if you belong with a large employer and you get a choice right now, you're going to stay there. the only difference will be for the employee who currently is offered insurance or may large employer and chooses not to take it and carries no health insurance at all. sometimes that tends to be younger people, because of course they all feel there are tamargo just like when i was that age i would forever. but what happens is they get a car accidents or things of that type, and then they need to be rushed to the emergency room, and we end up paying for it. so every person will be required

to take some type of health insurance. that will bring the cost down to the system because currently we pay for all those who are abusing the system but don't carry insurance. >> mike: certainly the uncompensated care is a huge issue and it does cause cost -- cost-shifting. a couple states that have required other ever going to be insured have not found cosco down. i'm specifically looking at massachusetts and tennessee whose tender program have almost bankrupted those two states. what evidence is there for this has been attempted that it actually helped cost to go down to cue the two samples we have of states doing it, the cost would automatically and they were instances in massachusetts where people would get on the program when they needed a particular procedure, and this is the procedure was over and it was covered they would get backup program and then they would catch up later. the policing of that is extraordinary. what's different about the congressional plan from the massachusetts and tennessee

plans? >> that's one of the reasons why they were at some innate democratic members and the congress saying we need a public option because we believe that that will be sort of like the -- the simple menu. the main menu that a person could get and that if government delivered it, as they do for example in medicare, where the costs are actually lower than the rest of the healthcare industry, the cost as they go up annually, are lower. that they believe that that would help to bring down the competition. the competition would lower their prices. one of the problems the blue dogs have is that if the price is too low, and it is subsidized so much by the government, then a private company can't compete, then we wouldn't have competition, and in a long-run, we would all end up in that public healthcare system. so when you suddenly blue dogs

fighting, we are fighting to save there probably should be something there, but we don't want it to carry the subsidized rates like medicare, which actually hurt areas like orange county, california. >> mike: i want to say first of all thank you for joining me tonight and thank you for having a town hall meeting. a lot of your colleagues are afraid of their own constituents and have not been. that's one reason i like you and one reason i wanted you on the show. i appreciate your candor tonight. thank you represent a sanchez for being a part of the program. spank -- accu. >> mike: what would a physician who treated president obama for 20 years thing about his healthcare proposal. we will ask them right afterfter to demonstrate the allergen trappers in pledge, we've trapped kimberly in this glass box... with all this dust. well, it's only dust. in that dust are allergens from pet dander and dust mites. eww! pledge with allergen trappers... traps up to 84% of allergens in dust. 84%? that's... nothing to sneeze at?

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>> mike: and mind bending travels across the country as they get dozens of doctors about health care reform i've not heard a single physician with a private practice who supports the president's proposal as it is. how about the doctor who called barack obama is patient for over 20 years. ernesto chicago presents former edition dr. david shiner. dr. scheiner welcome. delighted to have here tonight. i think he may be one of those exceptions. you believe we ought to have a single-payer system, is that correct question mark. >> what i want for patience as i want them to have freedom of choice. i want patients to have freedom of choice and under a single-payer they have had. under private insurance or the last 40 years i've seen them interfere in caring for patients. the. in 40 years medicare has never, once, interfered with the kind of care that i try to

administer. almost every day to private insurance companies do something to interrupt the kind of care that i would want to deliver. i don't know why they should be trusted. the other thing is the cost of administering private healthcare is about $400 billion a year. in our office we have two full-time people just to handle private insurance. if you had universal medicare, we would eliminate bad. the $400 billion could cover the 50 million who are uninsured. i think it is a moral outrage that we have 50 million people without health insurance and many other millions who are underinsured. i don't understand why the people aren't screaming to see that they get care. this is horrible. we have to have reform. >> mike: doctor, the 50 million uninsured if you extrapolate that down in the there are 12 million who are illegals, about 10 million people who could have insurance but choose to use their money for other things that could afford it,

there are other people who qualify for a 16 government programs they just don't shine -- sign up for them. there are probably 5 million people who just can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions. is it really the goal to get those 5 million insured and recognize there are some people that aren't insured because they choose not to be? smack everyone should be insured. if they're not -- 60% of all personal bankruptcies are from medical bills. i think it is our obligation to see that all -- >> mike: should we force them into it? >> i think everybody should have medicare. i think there should be a universal health coverage. when these people have a bonneville accident, young people who have no health insurance and might pay for the rest of their lives to try to get out of the debt they will incur. i think everyone should have a card that they are a subscriber to medicare. and i think the illegals, they do our work for us, i think we should be covered by medical care too. >> mike: who should pay for that?

all medical -- all taxpayers or should i run have some mine have some skin in the game tonight abraham henschel said you cannot have liberty without compassion. i think we are not showing much compassion. we have two, all of us are responsible to see that everyone has health care. we're the only western nation without a national health program. the only one. are all the other countries of the world wrong and we have somehow the only right answer? it's in nursing. it's worse than that. because we have freedom of press and freedom of speech and other liberties. i guess my point is -- i want to maybe not go too far to this is a lot to ask your opinion, president obama in 2003 the lead in a single-payer system. but we just play the tape i'm sure you've heard it. this is a great quote. >> on outcome yes. >> how do we get the federal government to take care of its business was to mark i happen to be a proponent of a single-payer ever so healthcare plan.

>> mike: when did the president change his mind? because he now says he's not for a single-payer system he clearly believed at that time but that was the best plan? sematic as the campaign progressed, but i think he saw the kind of opposition to this kind of program, but a vested interest, i think he saw he would be fighting these power battles against pharmaceuticals and insurance companies, medical organizations, lawyer organizations. there is a lot of opposition to it. a lot of the opposition is not in favor of the american people. i think he is being pragmatic and i think that has been his mistake. i don't think pushing this thing quite as fast as been a good idea. this is an extraordinarily competent measure. i am afraid that if we get a bad measure that goes through, it will set health reform back many, many years. >> mike: i answered to interrupt

we are out of time. we agreed moving fast is not as important as obi-wan and doing it efficiently. thank you. by this sounds in the background i think some as being rushed to a number of facility now. i hope there are insured. they could dr. scheiner. >> tennessee and massachusetts are states with healthcare plans submitted one aggression of democrats are trying to pass. are they working? coming up we'll ask ed rendell who favors universal healthcare and wand ♪ well i was shopping for a new car, ♪ ♪ which one's me - a cool convertible or an suv? ♪ ♪ too bad i didn't know my credit was whack ♪ ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪ ♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪

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report. go to mike huckabee.com and click on the huckabee report. the healthcare bill would be a federal mandate but how does it impact the states, and how the funds be allocated to each state. we'll talk with the governor of pennsylvania, ed rendell. ed rendell, delighted to have you hear tonight coming to us from harrisburg, pennsylvania. how is this proposal going to impact the states, because if i were a governor i would want to know is this going to be a budget buster cushion mark two make it interesting, mike, i don't think we know yet is there so many different versions. the senate finance committee version says that one of the things they will do to ensure more coverage is there going to increase medicaid from 100% of the federal poverty level to 133%. net increase for the first three years the federal government is going to pick up all the costs, but then in a fourth-year the state will have to pick up 10% of the cost, and we don't know what will happen down the road.

>> mike: ed, you and i both know what will happen down the road. he will put more of that cost him the states. they always have. i never goes back. >> we have taken the position, the governors association both republican and democrat that we don't want any unfunded mandates and we can't afford it. you know the shape more small states are in. however, one of the things they're looking at, and i know you'll remember this is number one, giving the states the flex ability to manage to do eligibles. people eligible for medicare and medicaid. if we manage them we can dramatically reduce costs. secondly, the clawback that was put on each state for the

>> mike: let me do a little housekeeping here because a lot of our viewers don't know what 'clawback is. that's the piece where it went medicare part d. took the cost of the prescriptions, the federal government said since the states are getting a benefit they would take that money back, caught it back. sort viewers don't think we're having shoptalk year. >> each state pays a significant amount. >> mike: that maybe is the point. mrs. clinton cost more money. is there any dispute about that cushion mark can we agree that the matter what we do if you start insuring more people and covering more people, this is going to cost more money in texas are probably going to go out for most everybody? >> there's no question about that in the short run. in the long run i believe very firmly that the president is

right, that we can cut significant enough cost of this to almost make it budget neutral. that may give you two quick pennsylvania examples. hospital acquired infections are in order problem that is. we passed the toughest bill on hospital acquired infections and when you're cut these infections by 8% and saved 358 to the healthcare delivery system. that's just one state and one year. on diabetes, by going to a new model of treating diabetes, a team approach where you work with a diabetic to wait until the diabetic winds up in the emergency room, we cut costs by 16%. now in the first couple of years it is going to be tough to roll up those cost savings, i am a firm believer that in the out years, use seven, eight, nine and ten will see cost savings kicked in. in the first couple years there's no question that have to be new revenues. no question. when we try to do our plan in pennsylvania i tried to get our

legislation to adopt the plan might massachusetts or california. >> mike: look at the massachusetts plan. that is but a fiscal disaster for them as once can care and tennessee. she says may be exactly what ought to be happening. why doesn't the federal government test some of these ideas within some states like yours, find out if it works and if it works like you have found some successful programs, and adopted into the program, but they're about to do a one-size-fits-all approach here. wouldn't that be a better way to go about it which mark team act i think so, mike, but they have studied -- i know for example that the administration for months ago asked us for our cost savings on hospital acquired infections by emergency room usage and chronic care, diabetes, asthma, heart conditions or did they have studied but the states have done. there's no question, anybody who looked at the system and a note from your days as governor of arkansas, we can save a substantial amount of money, but there's also no question that we

have to have revenues upfront. my program that i was going to roll out, 44% of the revenues were to come from the federal government in waivers and the state government. 55% were going to come from the employers and employees. you're absolutely right. individuals have devastated and again. individuals have to pay something for their healthcare. it should not be totally subsidized. >> mike: governor, i wish we could keep you longer but unfortunately we have to let you go. thanks again governor rendell. [ applause ] >> mike: so we should be making a call center care and how much input we have? our next guest is

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i'm toni braxton, and i encourage you to learn the signs of autism at autismspeaks.org. this is america's news headquarters. inmates' lauren sivan. the bodies of three victims of a -- i'm lauren sivan. the bodies of three victims recovered in a mid air collision. a total of nine people presumed dead. a sight seeing helicopter and a small plane were involved. the accident happening over the hudson river between new york and new jersey. a pilot on the ground tried to warn the helicopter. >> he radioed the accident helicopter and told them one lima hotel, you have a fixed wing behind you. there was no response from the pilot. he stated that he saw the right wing of the airplane contact the helicopter. he saw helicopter parts and the right wing fall and both

aircraft descended into the hudson river. >> search and recovery efforts are set to resume early sunday morn. i'm lauren sivan.ord tw we now head back to "huckabee." e bodies canceled until tomorrow. >> mike: if you want to follow me on twitter and get regular updates and messages only at to join us to talk about implantation of the plan long-time health and human services secretary under george bush and former governor of utah, michael leavitt. nice to have you here. i care much. [ applause ] >> mike: underwent this program to be about telling everyone what's wrong with plans that are out there. you have looked at this. what's right about this. what can i find inherently odd to say it but so what that's. >> it has laudable goals. this is a problem we have to solve. if we don't reform health care

it will break our country. we all want people to have insurance. we all want to have prevention and drive down the costs. those are the right things to be aiming for. this bill, however, does nothing to drive down costs. it'll add 1,000,000,000,000 1/2 dollars to a debt that's already exploded with the bailouts, with the stimulus package, and i think that's what has people uncomfortable. it started out as it debates about the 47 million people don't have insurance. you already sort of debunked that myth. but it's not about the 250 million people who have it. people are deeply concerned about what it will do, the uncertainty it injects into the healthcare system which most people find helpful. >> mike: the audience agrees with that. we're getting thousands and thousands of e-mails during this program. but a lot during the program. piles of them. this is coming in and i think this is -- it doesn't say who it's from here's the question. will america's health records be sent to washington and watch -- to an office in washington dc.

he was scared about the invasion of privacy. is that a possibility? >> i personally think there are bigger worries than that. >> mike: what could be bigger than that? tell me what would be bigger than that one team act if it were to happen that would be a big worry. i don't think that'll happen. what i worry about is the government will have a bigger and bigger influence to the healthcare we can gain access too. if you look at socialized systems around the world that many who advocate this so-called single-payer plan are patterned after, there are two very, very important problems. one is waiting lines, the other is rationing. this is all about getting more people insured by the government, which means that more people will have health care that is controlled by the government. but at some point in time there is a tipping point when private insurance simply cannot be viable and you end up with a single-payer like system. people call it a trojan horse. call it what you will.

but the reality is this is about getting more people and more healthcare decisions made by bureaucrats and not the patients. >> mike: this is a huge thing. a sixth of our economy isn't healthcare system. you are one of the chief architects of reformed welfare. that happened at the state level and the feds will be modeled it was road tested. here is a situation where the feds want to create a one-size-fits-all national program that is being tested except to states with cnet, nasa juices and tennessee, i keep pointing them out because my, it hasn't worked in the states for a well. >> governor, i am persuaded that if the federal government, the congress would enable the states with a series of tools that currently don't have, that within four years, the states could organize their marketplace in a way that if a person was older, or if they had a disability, or if they were poor, we could help them. but everyone else could have access to a choice of plans.

the states could accomplish that. that's what we did on welfare reform. there were national standards established, then the states were empowered to do what needed to be done to make it work. they did it slightly different in one state to another but over time they took the best of each and it has refined into a system that both parties are proud of and ten years later we look back on this being one of the great achievements. it's because we empower the states to make these choices. [ applause ] >> mike: one reason it works is because states have flexibility on how to implement it. but i don't see any proposals as they flexibility for the states. i think governor rendell even admitted it is not the level of flexibility we need. the concern i have and you know this better than anyone in america, the law is by its design ambiguous. people are afraid of what it says. you would perhaps understand that the block is typically ambiguous so that the real degree is done in rules and regulations at the agency level. the agency like the one you ran. how concerned are you that the

ambiguity of the language in the bill that scares the daylights out of people would have concerns because once those rules and regulations are drafted, then we are stuck with them. >> governor, you would your finger on a very vital part of this. this is what i call the big bang with no details. they're going to pass a bill that he sensually has a series of headlines and some aspirational goals and it will turn over to a labyrinth of federal commissions and various parts of the federal government to design the nitty-gritty regulations. by? because they don't have to put those in front of the people. it goes through a process they control. this is a very serious part of this. >> mike: what the people need to be afraid of is what they don't know. in other words people at town hall are upset because of something they read in the bill, something the congressmen haven't done, is redeveloped, these people have either afraid of it, but what they need to be

afraid of is what happens if a bill is passed and waits interpreted. you are the secretary of health and human services. and you find fighting the bureaucracy oversaw was one of your writers challenges? >> first of all, there are tremendous degrees of power that reside in that area or did and it is a very laborious process. but they can dramatically change and it is hard to change once it happens. so it is clear to me what's happening here and it is to you too. we have 1000 pages. we are going to have very limited debate. and we're like to pass a bill, turned over to the bureaucracy but then design the details and rewrite of a health care system that's run by the government. >> mike: michael leavitt, i wish you were in charge of putting this together. ucr crowd is not happy about what might happen. this is not a town hall and we have not -- are you guys a mob? just out of curiosity? all of you have been registered at the white house, i do want you to know. i want to say much. what an incredible insight you have. nobody i know in america

understands it better. [ applause ] >> mike: coming up we'll ask dr. david lifshitz of the healthcare bill impacts the elderly. and we will read more of your questions. stay with us.ted in skyscrapers.

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their healthcare. please welcome the executive director of the longevity center in little rock arkansas, dr. david lifshitz. in the interest of full disclosure i have to tell people i've known you for many years that i've known you to love you, governor. i really think that she really were one of the most fair and balanced man i've ever seen in public office. >> mike: i appreciate that very, very much. thank you. [ applause ] >> mike: i wanted to hear from your shows on pbs in the -- nationally i don't know anybody in the country that knows more about the process of aging and aging issues than you do. people who are senior adults are scared to death about obama care. should they be? to be frank. >> to be frank i don't think they should at the same time i think everybody should understand that one of the biggest crises facing us in the future is the graying of america. after all 72 million people are dancing inexorably toward old age.

in the next 20 years the percentage of the population over the age of 65 will double in the last 65% of all healthcare costs. all of us are going to reach the 85 and that percentage of the population will triple and half of us are dependent or did so unless we develop a solution to healthcare, our future looks very bleak. >> mike: the people -- the concern people have is about rationing. i'm sorry won't be looked at that treatment. >> governor, the problem is not that we do too little but that we do too much. we do too much of the wrong care and not enough of the right care. unfortunately, we all know that half of every of our healthcare dollars is spent on unnecessary, inappropriate and expensive care, and it is largely determined by physicians. >> mike: but if positions are only reimbursed because they do procedures, would it be better if we started paying physicians based on the outcome and the quality customer sue hecht there are a couple serious concerns. there are no primary care physicians in the country

anymore. second we are paid for procedures. the more we do the more we are paid. that doesn't work. if you cut the cost of doctors they will do more. if you change the way in which physicians are paid. if we don't do that we are doomed. we also have to empower our patients. everybody out there to understand that you need to be involved and educated about health care decisions. you can't leave it to your doctor. >> mike: you're making a point many of us have tried to make which is used should not trust insurance companies, you should not trust the government, you have to trust yourself. >> don't trust your doctor. just because he or she says something does not necessarily mean it's the truth. you have to be empowered and treat your relationship with your physician as professionally. >> mike: but you say we do have to pay doctors a fair and reasonable return. >> there's no question we have to pay the physicians who do in the trenches care. >> mike: in the trenches dr. >> primate in the trenches doctor i'm out there taking care of patients on a daily basis.

i know what the issues are. nobody wants to do what i do because no one is paid sufficiently to pay primary care. rather we pay for high-quality, high-tech care, and as a consequence doctors are going into the wrong fields, we are spending too much money on the wrong issues, and as a consequence we are facing a disaster. >> mike: if we put several million new people into the system, who will care for them? we don't have primary care physicians to take care of the population have seen occur to issues governor. we have uninsured americans under the age of 65, then people like me. every five seconds somebody turns 65 years of age or older. there are to covered up healthcare, but to be frank, unless we do something, no one will be out there or available or able to take care of me in the future because the costs are astronomical. we can't think that costs won't increase the number of people over the age of 65 is going to double. >> mike: i have to ask you this question. with so many e-mail questions or

if this is from paul johnson from the north city tennessee. she says was a criminal for a parent to do a child treatment but not when our government denies treatment? that is a powerful question. >> firstly, i think part of the issue is that the government shouldn't deny treatment. insurance companies should deny treatment. the problem is that we think of that as rationing. we have got to stop practicing the wrong care and start practicing the right care but we can't do it as rationing. we have to start being educated so that if we -- if a diagnosis is made and someone says for example you need open-heart surgery. for you accept that you should ask will the surgery prolong my life are good will improve the quality of my life? what are the complications? where is the sound scientific evidence or benefit to what you're saying is true. we know a significant fraction of invasive cardiac procedures are necessary. and if we do them. >> mike: we keep doing them.

>> we keep doing them. >> mike: we have to continue this conversation. it's so great to see you. you for everything you're doing out there in the trenches as a primary care physician. [ applause ] >> mike: what do you think about health care plan? coming up we will be answering the questions that you have been the questions that you have been sending in your e-mails and taaa in 1977, an 8-year-old boy picked up the game of golf from his father. the odds of that same boy then making it to the u.s. and european pro-golf tours? 1 in 7 million. the odds of the "big easy" winning the u.s. open once twice? 1 in 1.2 billion. the odds of him having a child diagnosed with autism? 1 in 150. ernie els encourages you to learn the signs at autismspeaks.org.

we're pretty much the same. pur. good, clean water. >> mike: if you'd like to be part of our studio audience: number on your screen or write to help fix that foxnews.com. it is time to listen to our studio audience has to say. we've been getting a lot of e-mails and legal right to studio audience.

caylee is up there with the microphone. who has a question for us was to mark smith and greg, my wife lynne and i are concerned about the public option. if it passes and it simply doesn't work, can it be repealed or smart. >> mike: ronald reagan said it best, the closest thing we'll ever see to eternal life on earth is a government program. the fact is we're very good at getting one started, but we have an impossible time of letting it go even block after it slipped through its usefulness. so the answer is probably not. you can look at a lot of government programs that should have been this continued but kept going. they've had a lot of e-mails back thousands of e-mails just since the show started. sandy from arizona wants to know something people say this is an emergency trip to do something now he has understand that none of these healthcare plans take effect before 2013. if this is true explained your audience should we slowed down and do it right. >> mike: we ought to slow down and do it right.

that's one thing people at town halls are saying. it's not that we don't need to look at issues in health care system. either that's not from every single person purpose of who they are. we all agree something needs to be done, tiresome and sanchez governor rendell, the question is what, and when. the wind is a big issue. for many of us were concerned about this being wished so hard. can i just make this sort of observation? i thought the best team in the book wasn't mine but it was from a guy in a town hall who said we're trying to shove this down the american people in three weeks and it took the obama's six months to figure out what kind of dog are going to get for their kids. i thought that said it all. [ applause ] >> i'm filled. we all need to -- we all know where socialist healthcare will lead to but exactly what kind of bases will this give for even more government programs? >> mike: and to answer here is that there will be a lot more government programs and we don't know just where it leads.

here's what we know. when government create something that creates a lot of auxiliary somethings to go along with it. we have seen that whether it's social security, medicare or medicaid. whether it's a military procurement. your member the former.hammers and the ridiculous costs that are taking place. it happens because there are so many hands touching it. to many fingerprints get on the federal system. one reason i strongly advocated for road testing ease ideas at the state level is but see what works and works apply to a federal system. but make sure you have evidence that it is going to function for you put it on all 50 states and find out it's a disaster because i can't fix it. cooling, backed e-mails matching is from ohio, i would like you to discuss the horrendous abortion mandate contained in health care bill which we will all be forced to pay other taxes. it seems the media is silent on this. >> mike: the media has been silent on it. many lesser pro-make note pretense about it i'm very pro life people know that so i'm not

objective and i'm honest i'm not objective and passionate about the idea that every at-bat every life has value and meaning and taxpayer dollars should not be used at the life of an innocent unborn child for any purpose because somebody thinks it's politically correct. we don't know for sure -- there's not specific language that says it will be. here's what we do know. the massachusetts bill, which i've often said this is about as close to model as we have, for $50 and a co-pay even get an abortion in massachusetts and that's part of the mandate. i don't want it to be part of the federal plan. it is more likely than not. here's another fact. republican members of congress tried to add an amendment to the bill that would say that there would not be federal monies used for abortion and the democrats said, we're not going to include language. if you're not going to pay for abortions, then why don't you approve the language. it tells me they are planning to use federal tax dollars for abortion and on that basis alone, is again an absolutely

unflappable pro-life person, i could not support any bill that would make our tax dollars pay for that. let's go down or to the first row. next question. >> i'm richard. if someone is self-employed and having a hard time paying their premiums, what's going to happen to them under the new plan was to mark. >> mike: richard, let me tell you what we need to be concerned about small business operators. the likelihood is that you're currently paying insurance for your employees, under the various plans one isn't 8% penalty that would be attacks the other is a $750 per person penalty you pay. in either case you're better off telling your employees you go to the public option, because i would be better off as a small business operator paying 8%, are paying the $750 fine and i would paying in the private sector in the marketplace the cost of insurance. when the president keeps saying you can keep your plan, i keep saying there won't be a plan to compete with.

when the government is subsidizing one of the plans, and the other one is having to compete without government subsidy, the ultimate reality is that there's not going to be the kind of choice that i keep hearing we will be able to keep. that's what we need to be concerned about. colin, one quick one to hackers from minnesota. we know optician brings the cost that's the beauty of capitalism. what are the states and people limited to the companies that kinsella's health coverage. >> mike: part of that is because the insurance companies are already dated at the state level and that's something that could be reformed. i want to say thanks to all of us who have given us e-mails and call. thank u. so much better at this boys, wake up!

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>> mike: we tried to give you a fair and balanced view of how healthcare reform will touch your life. i tried to make this a battle between a trusting of insurance companies or trusting the government. do be honest with you i don't trust either. i don't want to put my health therefore my life in the hands of insurance companies being counters or governments bureaucrats. but that's not the only choice. it's a trusting my life to an insurance company or the government, what about trusting ourselves? any reform on to empower us not the government or a for-profit company. both government and your insurance company need to work for us, not the other way

around. the answer -- the answer is not to nationalize health care, but to personalize health care so that we own our own coverage, and therefore we own our lives and our future. a health savings account which empowers me to not only make decisions but disney incenses to take airbus up and be responsible. that makes a lot more sense than abandoning control of my body to people that i don't know and frankly i don't trust. as for the congressional plan, if you really trust the same members of congress to spend your tax dollars recklessly, unobtrusive dollars in deficits, waste billions of dollars, then you're probably going to like what they come up with. but if you think that you run your business and your family more efficiently than government, you need to say no, and said loudly and clearly. to their plan for your life. you can e-mail me@mikehuckabee.com, click on the fox show feedback. it may remind you, don't miss next week's show.